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Forum:Instance Pages
How do you think the sections should be arranged? Currently most instances have a sections on "In-game history", "Walkthrough", and "Story", but they don't always have the same definitions and sometimes different pages put the equivalent material into different sections (the area vs challenge/duo/alert/raid duality isn't helping). Some pages have their descriptions taken from DCUO official forum announcements, but I can't find that for some other instances. Atheist723 (talk) 21:10, January 30, 2019 (UTC) :Good question :) This has shifted over the years and an effort to uniquify would be appreciated. :We don't have infoboxes for instances, so every page should start with the intro text (availability, requirements etc.) and an image to the right. :Then In-game History or Story? I don't particularly care which of both. Story seems the better name, but keep in mind that especially older instances may have different story settings for heroes and villains. :Characters and Locations can be a subsection of Story, meaning Inhabitants should move to Characters :Content should not be on instances, existing data should go to Rewards. :Then Map and Walkthrough, no brainer : Then Rewards :Collectibles is a relatively new addition, so many older instances will not have it. Nevertheless it is an important source of information and should be always there. :Then Trivia, then Gallery, then optionally Videos :As far as the story text is concerned, I am aware of the problem. Sometimes the in-game text is in the intro and the longer forum/update note text is under story, but sometimes there is no longer text. Well, we have to work with what we can get here. :Another problem is the differentiation between duos, alerts, raids on the one side and 2-player, 4-player and 8-player operations. We have different pages for Raids and Operations, but this seems to be less and less cared for. Atlantis: The Throne is in fact an operation, since it has multiple locations, but it was announced as a raid. We either can keep sorting such content to different pages or we need to think of merging those pages which also would be a big project. :Also, should operations have multiple sections for all stages? What about the content in the old format like on Assault and Battery? :Datasentinel (talk) 11:55, January 31, 2019 (UTC) I made a tentative version of The Last Son of Krypton page with a new format, that you can check out here. To answer your comment on your talk page (because it is related), wiki pages are not reviews, but encyclopedic pages that should include the ending like any part of the content (Wikipedia is also a small part of the reason why I moved characters and locations to the end, they are more like end credits in a movie, or a catalogue of some sort, that felt odd to be put at the beginning; if you care about spoilers, a character list can also be a weird kind of spoiler that doesn't make a lot of sense to be at the beginning as well). Another reason I'm against spoiler warnings is because it's a slippery slope, because a lot of things can be spoilers (e.g. Brainiac, a character page, mentions when he's defeated in the grand storyline sense, which is a pretty monumental development). Although I still hold that if absolutely must, I'll be fine with spoiler warnings in exchange for keeping the story in one whole piece. The "Additional lore" section was separated because strictly speaking, they do not have to be part of the instance's experience and you have to go after it yourself (kind of like collectibles). However, it can also be integrated into Walkthrough as part of the story, since e.g. in The Last Son of Krypton the Additional lore are Supergirl/the player piecing together Xa-Du's identity building up to the confrontation/confirmation that is him. I think originally Operations are supposed to make you go into the actual open world that anyone can go to (as in, Gotham or Metropolis), not an open world zone or even just having multiple locations. That's the case for the Hand of Fate Operations, I think, but it's been years since I played those (and I don't have membership or own episodes so I can't check any of them any more). And there was eventually some internal confusion on the developer's part. I'll say keep raids or operations on pages based on whatever the game calls them, but I don't feel particularly strongly either way. Atheist723 (talk) 21:40, February 4, 2019 (UTC) :::I am very sorry to have bothered you, but seemingly *not* giving a surprise ending away is beyond you and your encyclopedic striving. I tried to explain on my page in detail what exactly bothered me and even suggested that you put your STORY write-ups under story since I feel those are somehow misplaced under Walkthrough. I suggested that because you said you care a lot about the story, but obviously not enough to put YOUR story write-up under story. Or I am getting something wrong, which might also be the case. ::: I was about to ask why you moved the characters down so far. The featured character list can of course be a spoiler, but that is not the kind of spoiler I am worried about. :::Since you seem to be willing to reformat and work through all of those pages I don't particularly care how you do it as long as the collectibles sections stays like it currently is. :::I feel Introduction as a page heading is misleading here, that was so far used only for the instance's teaser text in the game. That should be renamed STORY, SYNOPSIS or BACKGROUND or some. :::New sections like Additional Lore can always be added, but should be optional. I think this one is a good idea though. :::On a general note, please try to keep the textual intro sections, i.e. the text before the first page headline in the table of contents as short as possible and put most information into the page sections. Thank you. :::Datasentinel (talk) 22:42, February 4, 2019 (UTC) Sorry that my opinion has been a source of frustration. I brought up "Wonder Woman striking Typhon with lightning" as an example to illustrate why I want to keep them in one piece - many things are both story and gameplay elements, so it would be silly to say them twice in slightly different ways in both Story and Walkthrough. Also, it would be a constant headache weighing whether something is story-prominent enough to put in Story, or vice versa (e.g. is Cerebus joining the player's side also enough of a gameplay mechanic to put in Walkthrough; is Typhon's monster eggs hatching enough of a story element to put in Story, etc.). I considered those, but I am reluctant to call it "Story" (which is what some pages are doing now) or "Synopsis" because that would imply it is a summary of the whole instance, not just an...Introduction. "Background" would cause confusion with the "Background" we currently have on character pages, which are, as far as I know, detailed comic backgrounds that have limited relation to the game itself, which is another can of worms. I'm not sure what current usage of "Introduction" you're referring to. I consider it as having the introductory messages merged into the "Intro" section that is currently on e.g. All's Well That Ends Well. Related is your last point, I'm making that move partly because those quotes are taking up too much space in the area before the table of contents, hence their move to the Introduction section. I see no reason to change the Collectibles section, it's fine the way it is. If that's alright with you, I'll start reformatting instance pages into the proposed format (with spoiler warning included). Atheist723 (talk) 20:33, February 5, 2019 (UTC) :::As I said before please go ahead. Just a word of warning in advance: I will add mechanic walkthroughs below your story write-ups whereever I see fit without messing with your write-ups. As I said previously IMHO walkthroughs are mainly for the points in an instance where players don't know what to do (exactly) or which otherwise require explanations. E.g. everyone sees that Typhon is the last boss in GOM, but that you need to charge him if the lighting does not jump over to him is explained nowhere. You might not like the outcome of that patchwork. Last chance to consider moving your story write-ups to an extra section where they will remain untouched. Still do not like INTRODUCTION for this kind of content. Datasentinel (talk) 22:40, February 5, 2019 (UTC)